Marc Benioff

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Marc Benioff is the co-founder and CEO of Salesforce, the second-largest software company in the world. He started programming at age 15, selling his first program for $75, and went on to build Salesforce into a company worth more than $300 billion that also owns Slack, Tableau, Quip, and MuleSoft. Marc is known as a marketing legend, and is now leading Salesforce into the era of AI agents. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The importance of maintaining a beginner’s mind

• His approach to product launches and marketing

• Managing through tough times and layoffs

• His relationship with Steve Jobs and lessons learned

• Why Salesforce is betting big on AI agents

• Many stories from his entrepreneurial roller coaster

• Much more

Some takeaways:

1. Experiment relentlessly, then scale what works. Don’t assume you know what will work. Try a ton of different ideas, campaigns, and strategies, and double down on what actually moves the needle. When you find something that resonates, turn it into your strategy.

2. Never lose sight of the “beginner’s mindset”—always building, learning, and evolving. Marc Benioff describes Salesforce as “a 25-year-old, 75,000-person, $350 billion market cap startup,” and that’s the mentality you should adopt. Stay curious and open, as if you’re just getting started. Resist the temptation to believe you have all the answers. In a world that’s constantly shifting, maintaining that sense of openness lets you adapt and innovate at a pace that keeps you ahead of the competition.

3. Marc’s relationship with Steve Jobs wasn’t just one-sided. It was built on generosity and mutual respect. In your career, make it a point to help others selflessly. The more you give, the more you’ll receive—whether that’s advice, opportunities, or lasting partnerships. Build relationships based on genuine support, not just transactions.

4. Your customers are your best salespeople. Share their stories—how they’re using your product and seeing real results. Use these stories across your marketing, especially for high-profile clients.

5. We’ll soon be using agents to automate repetitive, low-value tasks. In health care, for instance, an agent could handle simple reminders and data entry, freeing up human professionals to focus on deeper, more empathetic interactions. Identify areas in your company where tech can step in to handle routine tasks, and let your team focus on the high-impact, human aspects of their work.

6. In a crowded market, you’re forced to innovate and evolve, but when you’re alone, stagnation can set in. Embrace your competitors, learn from them, and strive to get better each day. Toyota’s philosophy—“Better, better, better, never best”—perfectly captures this spirit: never stop improving, no matter how good you get.

Where to find Marc Benioff:

• X: https://x.com/benioff

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbenioff

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Marc Benioff and Salesforce

(03:54) Marc’s early career and domain names

(05:59) The App Store story and lessons from Steve Jobs

(15:18) Lessons from launching Salesforce

(22:03) The importance of keeping a beginner’s mindset

(29:53) Why Marc calls Salesforce the “25-year startup”

(31:47) Agentforce

(36:09) Why Marc says AI is the defining technology of our lifetime

(40:12) AI’s impact on the workforce

(42:31) Entrepreneurs need to be like conductors

(46:02) Failure corner

(50:32) The future of AI agents

(56:34) Final thoughts and farewell

Referenced:

• Bill.com: https://www.bill.com

• App Store: https://www.apple.com/app-store/

• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com

• Oracle: https://www.oracle.com

• Larry Ellison on X: https://x.com/larryellison

• Siebel Systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebel_Systems

• Saba Software: https://talentedlearning.com/lms-vendor-directory/saba-software

• Tom Siebel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomassiebel

• Avon: https://www.avon.com

• Salesforce Chief Has Pulled Some Crazy Stunts: https://www.businessinsider.com/marc-benioff-salesforcecom-chief-has-pulled-some-crazy-stunts-2012-3

•  Matthew McConaughey on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officiallymcconaughey

• Woody Harrelson on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/woodyharrelson

• “Ask More of AI” with Matthew McConaughey: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnobS_RgN7JaxOsLD8WH0I9E6osK3UrfI

• Marc’s tweet about the ad with McConaughey and Harrelson: https://x.com/Benioff/status/1866175950062239784

• Chris Rock on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisrock

• Sushi Iwa: http://www.sushiiwa.jp/en/

• Ryoanji Temple Rock Garden: https://www.japan.travel/en/spot/1145/

• Neil Young Archives on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neilyoungarchives

• Mount Tam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tamalpais

• Spirit Rock: https://www.spiritrock.org

• Jack Kornfield: https://www.spiritrock.org/teachers/jack-kornfield

• Agentforce: https://www.salesforce.com/form/agentforce/demo

• Minority Report on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Minority-Report-Tom-Cruise/dp/B00A2FSSHK

• Peter Schwartz on X: https://x.com/peterschwartz2

• UCSF Health: https://www.ucsfhealth.org

• A.I. Chatbots Defeated Doctors at Diagnosing Illness: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/17/health/chatgpt-ai-doctors-diagnosis.html

• Does AI improve doctors’ diagnoses? Study puts it to the test: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/11/241113123419.htm

• A.I. Will Transform the Global Economy—if Humans Let It: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/07/special-series/ai-transform-global-economy.html

• Wargames on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Wargames-Dabney-Coleman/dp/B0011EQBOS

• Her on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Her-Joaquin-Phoenix/dp/B00KATY250

• AI (Einstein) at Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/in/artificial-intelligence

• Salesforce Signs Definitive Agreement to Acquire Airkit.ai: https://www.salesforce.com/news/stories/salesforce-signs-definitive-agreement-to-acquire-airkit-ai

• Salesforce Buys Big Data Startup RelateIQ for Up to $390M: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/11/salesforce-buys-big-data-startup-relateiq-for-up-to-390m

• Salesforce to cut workforce by 10% after hiring ‘too many people’ during the pandemic: https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/04/salesforce-to-cut-workforce-by-10-after-hiring-too-many-people-during-the-pandemic

• Michael Dell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mdell

• Bret Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettaylor

• Akio Toyoda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akio_Toyoda

• Kaizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen

• TRS-80: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80

• CLOAD Magazine: https://archive.org/details/cload_newsletter

Recommended books:

• Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War: https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Fleet-Novel-Next-World/dp/054470505X

• Behind the Cloud: The Untold Story of How Salesforce.com Went from Idea to Billion-Dollar Company—and Revolutionized an Industry: https://www.amazon.com/Behind-Cloud-Salesforce-com-Billion-Dollar-Company/dp/0470521163

• Trailblazer: The Power of Business as the Greatest Platform for Change: https://www.amazon.com/Trailblazer-Business-Greatest-Platform-Change/dp/1984825194

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.